Suomen Miekkailu- ja 5-otteluliitto

Results for junior foil (mixed) 24.02.2007

1 Hirvela Lauri
2 Tokola Samuel
3 Grasbeck Gunnar
3 Nummi Miiro
5 Tuovinen Tuuli
6 Tokola Helea
7 Raykkyla Felix

Results for minijunior foil (mixed) 24.02.2007

1 Hirvela Lauri
2 Tokola Helea
3 Grasbeck Gunnar


Results for open foil (mixed) 25.02.2007

1 Tokola Teemu
2 Tokola Paulus
3 Pillsbury-Tietavainen Dana
3 Bade Jan
5 Tokola Samuel
6 Korhonen Teemu
7 Lakkasuo Teemu
8 Nuojua Johanna
9 Hirvela Lauri
10 McCartney Breon
11 Kentta Outi
12 Patrikainen Niina
13 Seppanen Ilkka
14 Nummi Miiro
15 Tuovinen Tuuli
16 Vasti Katja
17 Alanne Anssi
18 Tokola Helea
19 Tokola Pekka
20 Fusoni Carolina


Breakout of results for open foil, by gender

Men
1 Tokola Teemu
2 Tokola Paulus
3 Bade Jan
4 Tokola Samuel
5 Korhonen Teemu
6 Lakkasuo Teemu
7 Hirvela Lauri
8 McCartney Breon
9 Seppanen Ilkka
10 Nummi Miiro
11 Alanne Anssi
12 Tokola Pekka

Women
1 Pillsbury-Tietavainen Dana
2 Nuojua Johanna
3 Kentta Outi
4 Patrikainen Niina
5 Tuovinen Tuuli
6 Vasti Katja
7 Tokola Helea
8 Fusoni Carolina

With epee The points have been counted based on the total number of participants everytime there is a mixed competition (both genders) for juniors or minijuniors.
If a competition doesn't narrow the participants to one gender, why should the ranking points?

Niku Kivekäs

Interesting to hear that this is done for epee juniors and minijuniors. It would be nice to do that for foil, too, because people come from Oulu and Rovaniemi and other places for these competitions, and it is so disappointing to travel so far and then earn no points just because there aren't enough people of the same sex there.

The same thing happens sometimes to adults. I remember one of my beginners didn't get any points from his first competition because there were only two men there, even though a total of six or seven people were there. It was a disappointing beginning to competition experience to work so hard and not get even one point.

Maybe more people would come and compete if they knew they could get points each time. We can still keep the ranking lists separate.

What are the arguments for not doing it this way? Just curious.

I wrote a message to this topic in the "kisat"- folder, bcause it really doesn't belong here!

I can't speak for epee, but in foil, the right of way rules mean that size, speed and strength don't count for much - it's more about technique, timing and distance. The top men and women are almost never the fastest or the strongest - they are the cleverest and those with the best technique.

And if we keep the ranking lists separate, I don't see what difference it makes if the women score fewer points total. The top women will still be the top ranked women.

Or am I missing something here?

Regarding the prizes, we have often given separate prizes for men and women, even though it isn't technically allowed under SML rules. If the ladies really want it that way, we could amend the SML rules to allow that practice to continue in mixed competitions.

Personally, I prefer to earn my medals the hard way, by beating the guys and the ladies, but of course that's probably much easier in foil than in epee. Maybe we could do an experiment of counting the points for foil with the total participants and then check back after a year to see how it went?

For me, this is really all about making sure that people who are fencing foil competitions get some points for their efforts. I think in epee it's kind of a moot point, because not only are there enough people to always give ranking points to both genders, but there are so many people that we generally separate the competitions by gender anyway. In addition, most of the epee fencers are clustered in the south of Finland, so there is less of a problem with people traveling a long distance for a competition and then not getting any ranking points.

So, I was really more just thinking of foil and what we could do to make sure everyone gets some reward for their effort, especially for the juniors.

The rules do not technically disallow giving prizes for both genders.

What they do is that they require the organiser to give prizes in the mixed series (value of each prize at least equal to the participation fee).

The competition organisers, however, are not forbidden from coming up with any prizes they want. You could give a prize for everyone if you wanted, and the rules do not forbid that.

_________________
Teemu Tokola
Oulun Miekkailuseura
e t u n i m i . s u k u n i m i ( ät ) o u l u n m i e k k a i l u s e u r a . f i